Mind If We Talk?: How to Cope With a Life-Changing Diagnosis

Welcome to Mind If We Talk?

Mind If We Talk? is an original podcast created by BetterHelp and Acast Creative Studios. Hosted by licensed therapist Haesue Jo, this 8-episode series takes a grounded, therapeutic approach to some of life’s most relatable mental health challenges. Each episode features candid, two-part conversations exploring topics like imposter syndrome, grief, procrastination, and setting boundaries. With warmth, clarity, and professional insight, Mind If We Talk? creates space for honest reflection and emotional growth. Whether you're deep into your self-growth journey or just starting out, this show offers comfort, connection, and practical tools for healing.

Episode 5: How to Cope With a Life-Changing Diagnosis?

Health complications are stressful on their own, but when healthcare providers aren’t listening to your concerns, what can you do?

On this episode, host and therapist Haesue Jo talks with Ryan Sickler, comedian and host of The HoneyDew Podcast, a storytelling show aimed at highlighting and laughing at the lowlights of life. 

In this powerful episode of “Mind If We Talk?,” Ryan opens up about living with the genetic condition Factor V Leiden. He shares the emotional weight of finding out so late in life, his near-death experience as a patient, and the impact of his family’s medical history.

Then, Haesue is joined by Dr. Sreela Roy-Greene, LMHC, clinical operations manager at BetterHelp. They break down how physical health challenges can affect mental health and talk about the therapeutic intervention that helped Ryan. If you or a loved one are feeling lost under the weight of medical stress, then this episode is for you.

HAESUE JO:

A quick heads up that this episode covers topics that may be upsetting to some listeners, including medical trauma and sudden death. Please take care while listening.

RYAN SICKLER:

HAESUE JO:
Welcome back to “Mind If We Talk?” where you get to be a fly on the wall for many therapy sessions and learn some mental health tips in the process. I'm your host, Haesue Jo. I'm a licensed therapist with over 10 years of experience providing individual and family therapy. This week's question, how to cope with a changing diagnosis. At some point in our lives, we all receive challenging news and hard truths, whether that be for yourself or your loved ones. Sometimes this comes in the form of a medical diagnosis. Health complications can take a major toll on one's mental health.

Dealing with these situations is even more difficult when the people experiencing them feel disregarded. One study found that 64% of adults in America wish healthcare providers took more time to understand them. And 73% say that the healthcare system is failing to meet their needs.

When you feel like you're forced to advocate for yourself with limited support from care providers, it's easy to feel isolated and powerless. In this episode, we're gonna talk about processing health challenges and empowering yourself as a patient with someone who has firsthand experience. Ryan Sickler is a comedian and host of the HoneyDew Podcast, a show focused on highlighting and laughing at the low lights of life. At age 42, Ryan was diagnosed with something called Factor Five Leiden, a genetic blood clotting disorder that he inherited from his father. A decade after his diagnosis, this condition and a supposedly simple surgery resulted in a near death experience for Ryan that changed the course of his life. Since then, Ryan has learned a lot about what it means to advocate for himself and pursue self-care. He opened up about his journey with Factor Five Leiden and the coping mechanisms he's used to process his experience. 

After we talk with Ryan, I'll debrief our conversation and get some practical advice from Dr. Sreela Roy-Greene, Clinical Operations Manager at Better Help. Let's get talking. How's your morning been going, Ryan?

RYAN SICKLER:

It's been great. Actually, I got up this morning, got some belly rubs with the dog, and I came here to talk to you. It's been a great start.

HAESUE:

I didn't know you were gonna start with the dog. I was like, “oh, belly rubs.” That's a thing I can invite into my life.

RYAN SICKLER:

You know what? Why don't I incorporate that into my world? Yeah, I should. Yeah, I should.

HAESUE:

Yeah, we can learn from the dogs. There's one here. She may say something throughout.

RYAN SICKLER:

What's her name?

HAESUE:

She is Sesame.

RYAN SICKLER:

Sesame. Yeah.

HAESUE:

And then there's another one, which is Oyster.

RYAN SICKLER:

Oyster. Honestly, I love it.

HAESUE:

How about your dog? What is your dog's name?

RYAN SICKLER:

My dog's name is Princess Lily Rose.

HAESUE:

Oh, that is sweet.

RYAN SICKLER:

Yeah. My daughter was six and that was the name we had to go with. So that's the name.

HAESUE:

Love it. Thank you for being here today. I really appreciate you coming to share about your experience. And today we're gonna be talking about something that is deeply personal. It affects so many people out there and that is living with a serious medical condition. And your story with Factor Five Leiden is both harrowing and inspiring. So I was hoping to start us off. We could go back to the day that you found out about this. The day that you were diagnosed. What happened? How did it lead to this? What was that like for you?

RYAN SICKLER:

It's a wild turn of events. The first thing I ever noticed, I was watching the Star Wars film where spoiler alert, what's his name? Kylo Ren kills his dad Han Solo. And my legs were itchy and I had jeans on, and I just remember taking my hands and gently rubbing my thighs over my jeans. Like, gosh, they're itchy. And I could feel my veins through the jeans. So I called the hospital and they said, you're clotting. And I had never experienced anything like this. They said, you need to get here now. So I went and what the initial cause was kidney stones. So I started with kidney stone trouble and I was in and out of the hospital. 'cause they kept saying, you know, you don't have anything. And I'm like, I'm in excruciating pain. Something's going on now it's let's pass the kidney stone. So then I passed the kidney stone, but my legs were still clotted. So my primary care physician said, I'm gonna run some tests for this genetic disease I've heard about before, just for the hell of it. And he nailed it.

HAESUE:

Genetic Disease. 

RYAN SICKLER:

It's a genetic blood disease. And from what I've learned over the years here, [of the] 10 years I've known about it. The only way you know you have this is if it rears its ugly head and something happens to you. So my doctor figures this out and says, I'm gonna send you to an oncologist. Don't freak out. I'm freaking out. I'm hearing oncologist. The only thing I know about on.

HAESUE:

Cancer. 

RYAN SICKLER:

Yeah, thank you. The C word. So I go in and he says to me, it's rare that he's seen both legs clot like that. And he says, I'm gonna do a blood test on you for a few things, but I want you to know that we are testing you for leukemia and lymphoma, and I have to wait two weeks for these results. And he gives me his personal cell phone number.

And I was like, this does not make me feel good. You know what I mean? I don't want my oncologist's personal cell phone number. 

HAESUE:

Right, right. 

RYAN SICKLER:

So I'm freaking out for two weeks. I'm also in the middle of my daughter's mom and I were splitting [up] at the time. So I'm just being bombarded with the lowest of the low in life at the time. And I'm freaking out, do I have cancer? Am I going to die? What is going on? And the whole time I'm still, you know, being a dad and going to work and trying to make people laugh and be present on stage and push all this other stuff away. And I go back for my results. I'll never ever forget this. And I passed this forward, uh, one of the nurses came in and she said, how do you feel?

And I said, I'm terrified. I'm terrified [of] what you have in that piece of paper right there with you. And she said, well, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but I want to tell you you do not have cancer. She goes, listen to me. It's very important that you go celebrate this. And I was like, I just feel like, you know, I just want to go home. I'm exhausted. She's like, my job every single day is telling people that they have cancer. And today I got to tell someone they didn't. And I'm getting chills about it now. 

HAESUE:

Me too.

RYAN SICKLER:

And I was like, I hear where you're coming from. So that's when he came in and told me, I have Factor Five Leiden and now I have to tell my family, the rest of 'em that are left, 'cause my father's dead.

He died when we were 16 and he was 42. Very young. Which we're all starting to put together now. They ruled it a heart attack back then back in the eighties, if you were young and you died, it was just [a] heart attack. You know? Now with the advancement of modern medicine, these things, they're starting to realize that clots are a big thing that take people out, healthy, or whatever, young, they don't care. So I tell my mother and my two brothers to get tested, they don't have it. So my father [gave] this thing to me. So now we know. And even the doctors have said like, we can't for certain say what your father died of. But he did get outta the hospital from a heart attack with clots and then we found him dead in his bed in the morning one day, my brothers and I, and all this time we're thinking, heart attack. Well, I'm the exact same age, 42, when he dies, I'm experiencing this. I'm laying on my bed crying and saying, if this is it, just take, I'm in so much pain. I'm like, just go ahead, take me. And I make it through. So now I'm armed with the knowledge that I have Factor Five Leiden, and I wear compression pants on my flights. Long drives, I'm the dude, I'm the dude that slows the road trip down. Now I'm like, we gotta stop guys. Yeah. If I gotta walk around, let's get a drink or a coffee. So let's stretch our legs a little bit. We're not gonna make it in record time with me. So that was 2015, when that all started happening, 2016, the beginning of the year. Now I'm armed with the knowledge that I have this disease and I just gotta keep my body moving and stay healthy.

HAESUE:

That is such a frightening and challenging experience. So thank you so much for sharing that. And I'm understanding that you found out about your diagnosis around 2016, and you've also spoken about a near death experience you had sometime after that. Can you talk about what happened there?

RYAN SICKLER:

So I go in for a back surgery at this point. I've had this chronic back injury since I'm 16. And I've been living with this for, you know, 34, 35 years at the time. 

HAESUE:

Back pain?

RYAN SICKLER:

Back pain, left leg, numb every day, all day long shooting pain down my leg. And I've just been tolerating it. And so I had a show at the Troubadour here in Los Angeles, and I couldn't feel my legs, either of them, now we’re at the point where now I can't even do my job. So I go in for surgery and they make you fill out extensive pre-op paperwork. And in that pre-op paperwork with my primary care physician who they make sign off on 800 sheets, we extensively put, this patient has Factor Five Leiden. This patient has already clotted from it. This patient knows we have this issue. Please be aware. And I tell every person over and over again that I have this and I'm concerned about any sort of bedrest, but I'm assured this is a simple three hour outpatient procedure. 

HAESUE:

He'll be in and out.

RYAN SICKLER:

In and out. But the day I go is in January and back in January, 2023, we had torrential downpours here and there happened to be a hole in the ceiling of one of the operating rooms. So now they can't use it and they only can use one. So [for] my 10:00 AM appointment, I don't go now until 7:00 PM. I'm just sitting there all day.

HAESUE:

Uh oh.

RYAN SICKLER:

They take me back, I wake up and nobody's there, but these two nurses that wanna rush me out and go home, but I'm like, I'm not leaving. They're like, you have to pee before you go. And I'm like, yeah. And I was supposed to be here at 10:00 AM, not closing time, so I'm gonna let my body adjust and I'm gonna pee regular[ly]. They say, no, we're gonna stick a catheter in you. And I said, no, you're not. Yeah. Just because you guys wanna go home. No you're not. So I end up thank God, doing what I need to do without a catheter. And I go home and during the weekend the surgical area continues to swell, you know, a bump. And the doctor had given me his number because he wasn't there when I woke up. And he said, call me and we'll talk, hit me up if you have any issues. So I do and I'm like, hey, the surgical area seems to be still full. And he is like, okay, you could be bleeding back there. So he wants me to come back in. Now the surgery was on a Friday. He wants me to come back in on a Monday to fix whatever's going on back there. And I do. I go back, they open me up again. They fix this tear. They say it could have been from, I guess when I was coming out of anesthesia, they said I was coughing violently.

But you know, I don't remember any of that. And that could have done it. Now we're good. Two surgeries, I'm all fixed up. The problem comes in the care and keeping of me. When I tell every single person, so much so, that that surgeon said, man, you're really worried about this Factor Five Leiden, huh? And I said, yes, I am. I've clotted before and I know that if I do this again, it's probably the end of me. So he got me these little calf pumps. I don't know if you've ever seen these. They're little like, you know, the blood pressure cuff, you put your arm in it, like CVS, they're kind of like that. So he said, put these on your calves while you're laying still, they'll massage and give you blood flow. But, I recover slowly and day after day, I'm not seeing the same nurses every day. It's a new person that I have to again tell, hey, I've got this thing.

HAESUE:

I have this thing. Which some of them I'm guessing have never even heard of this condition.

RYAN SICKLER:

Exactly. They're like, what? So I am being the biggest advocate for myself that I can, I'm laying still day after day and I'm telling 'em, please, I gotta get up. You have to move me around. And I think six days I laid there straight. They come to finally get me up one day. And, they say, listen, you've been laying so long that you might not be able to walk. So what we're first gonna do is sit you up and just sit on the end of the bed, and if you feel dizzy or nauseous, we cannot do this. And I was like, okay. And I sit up on the end of the bed and I feel like I'm gonna pass out. And they're like, nope, not today. And I'm like, just gimme a minute. Like, you don't understand. This is se[rious], like you gotta lay down.

So now I lay back down, it's Sunday and they move me to my own room finally. And I'm watching the Ravens playoff game. They lose in a heartbreaking fashion. I'll never forget any of this. 

HAESUE:

I’m sorry. 

RYAN SICKLER:

Thank you. Sunday night, I go to bed. When I wake up Monday, the OT, [the] occupational therapist comes to me and she says, okay, today's the day that you're finally gonna get the heck out of this hospital. It's been almost a week now. And she goes, you just have to pass a couple of tests for me. She brings a little step and it's like three little stairs. And she goes, I need you to go up and down this thing 10 times and show me you can do this. You can do this, you can go home right now. I'm like, awesome. So I do all my little stairs and then when I'm done, she literally says, Mr. Sickler, you have successfully passed your tests as your occupational therapist. I'm telling you that you are free to go home today. And immediately I grab my chest, I collapse on the bed, and I say, I'm clotting. And she's like, what? And I said, I'm clotting. And she runs out and she gets a surgeon. He sprints in and he says, what's going on? And I said, I'm clotting. I've been telling you guys I'm clotting. He said, how do you know? And I said, I've clotted before. He said, what does it feel like? Does it feel like there's an elephant on your chest? I said, it feels like there's five of 'em on my chest. And he said, do you, are you having a heart attack? And I said, I, I'm grabbing, I'm, you know, we're going back. I'm like, I don't feel any heart attack symptoms.

And he goes, wait a second. And I breathe. And boom, the jaw, the sharp pain down the arm you hear about. I said, oh my God, now I feel it. And he said, sir, you might be clotting and having a heart attack. 

HAESUE:

Oh my God. 

Ryan:

And that's the last thing I hear. That's it for me. And thank God, I wake up. And when I wake up, they come in left and right. Mr. Sickler, you are lucky to be alive. Someone's watching over you in this room. You have massive pulmonary embolisms. They went through your heart. Your heart is twice its size. And because of the genetic blood disease, the Factor Five [Leiden], there is a procedure where they can go through your groin with some tubes and they can suck the clots out.

HAESUE:

And Ryan, I wonder if before we get into that part of the journey, if I can ask you a question here. 

RYAN SICKLER:

Yeah, please. 

HAESUE:

Because as you're describing all these things happening, having a massive heart attack plus the clotting at the same time. I couldn't help but continue to recall. You know, you told so many people about the Factor Five, you had to almost figuratively shout at everybody so that they would be aware that you have this condition that you need to be moving around. That you can't be lying in bed for a week. You really had to advocate for yourself in the hospital. And yet this happened. It could be that somebody was listening to you and it got lost in the shuffle of so many nurses coming in and out and all this paperwork and everything like that. But my experience hearing it is that they wouldn't listen. What was that like for you emotionally now to be going through this, grabbing your chest, telling a doctor? I don't know what's happening, but I tried to warn you all. What was that like for you?

RYAN SICKLER:

Infuriating. I was so angry. So angry that I'm not in a hospital because I'm not taking care of myself. I'm not in there because I'm drinking too much. I'm not exercising. I'm smoking too much. I'm, you know, living carelessly. I'm not in there for any reason other than their fault. 

Because what they tell me, and this is what made me even more angry, is because of the blood disease, they can't do the procedure. If they do that procedure. There's a risk that I could become a vegetable. And I said, well, we're not doing that. And they said, well then you need to lay in this bed, the old school way, where we put blood thinners in your IV and slowly work you off of them into a shot and then medication. So now I'm in the hospital for three weeks for no fault of my own. I'm going from a three hour outpatient procedure where you're supposed to go home and literally walk and blood flow to help the surgery and recovery to laying completely flat.

HAESUE:

And in fact, you were trying to prevent this.

RYAN SICKLER:

Yes. This is what I was worried about. So there's a lot of emotion going on. I'm furious that I'm now stuck. What ends up being three weeks in this bed. I don't get to see my daughter. They tell me, this is the scary part. So when they tell me they can't do the procedure and they have to do it the old school way, they tell me that the next 48 hours [are] touch and go. And they tell me to call people and let them know that I may not make it. 

HAESUE:

Oh my goodness.

RYAN SICKLER:

So I have to make some of those calls. And that wasn't easy. And on top of panicking and being terrified. I'm also high on Dilaudid. You know what? I'm out of it and I'm trying to tell people like, hey. So I finally called my friend and business manager. I was like, I need you to make these calls, dude. I'm so sorry. But just, you know, can you please, I'm out of it and I'm freaking out.

HAESUE:

Yeah. You're out of it. And you're needing to have end of life conversations. Goodness gracious.

RYAN SICKLER:

So it takes three days or so for my heart, [for] the swelling to come down. And one of the surgeons, this also is funny and it's not funny, but it's also terrifying. He came in crying, and I said, oh my God. I go, why are you crying right now? He's like, you're not supposed to be in this situation. I'm so sorry. Someone's looking out for you. Right. You really should be dead. I go, you gotta stop crying, bro. You're freaking me out here right now. 

So, you know, I then have to stay in there for three weeks and yeah, I'm angry. I'm so angry about this. I'm also scared. I have conversations, hey, can I ever fly again? Like, is my standup career over? Like, do I have to, driving's gonna be a problem if I have to drive eight hours, I'm gonna have to stop all the time. 

And they tell me no. They tell me that the human body's pretty amazing that these clots are gonna take probably about a year, but they will dissipate themselves. And I go right back on the road in May. This happened to me in January, and I start[ed] the tour, and I've been on that tour for two years, and now I'm on blood thinners for life. 

I finally had to fight to get my daughter. They wouldn't let her visit. They said she was too young. And I was like, no more of this. I said, listen, that's her mom and I'm her dad. Like this isn't a babysitter bringing her in. Like, we are fine with it. So they finally said, fine and let her come in. And that, you know, I, that made me feel better. You know, my dad dying at 42. I'm that age. And I wouldn't FaceTime her. I was, I kept it all to back surgery for her. She now knows what happened, but at the time, I wasn't telling her like, Hey, this serious thing happened. But then I get out and I am on a walker for a while.

HAESUE:

Can I ask you another question, Ryan? You know, you, you mentioned that you were around the same age, if not the same age, [as] your father when he died from potentially this, when you found out that you had this condition too, what thoughts, feelings do you remember coming up for you at that time because of that? As you were beginning to connect those dots?

RYAN SICKLER:

Everything, everything is coming to me. You know, so, it gets even worse with that. So after my dad die[d], my mom had already split from our family. So my two brothers and I, we live on our own. We raise ourselves, we go to school, we're good kids, 3.0 grade average. I probably could [have] had a 4.0 if I got some hugs, but 3.0 is not bad. You know what I'm saying? So we end up living with my grandmother after this, which is my dad's mom. And a year and a half later we're 20, she's 69. She comes out of her room, her last words are, somebody help me, and she collapses in front of us. And I'm giving her mouth to mouth and CPR, et cetera, et cetera. Turns out, guess who gave this to my dad? Who gave this to me?

HAESUE:

Oh my, grandma.

RYAN SICKLER:

So now we're, this is what's crazy is you grow up your whole life thinking, dad died of a heart attack. Grandma died of a heart attack. We have heart disease in the family. You don't ever consider that there's this genetic marker in there that's killing us if we don't know about it. So, and then I start getting really upset, like, man, if my dad would've just been on some blood thinners, he'd probably still be here today. 

And just the advancement in medicine, he would be here today. This is a man I could talk to as a father and have insight as a dad and with this condition, et cetera, et cetera. So many things are going on about that. And it's not lost on me that I'm 42, he was 42, this is happening. And in my bed, laying there as exactly, I mean, I know I laid on that bed with one leg off that bed, like he died. It was wild to me. And it was all happening. And I am not ashamed or embarrassed to say I was talking out loud to anyone and everyone that would listen.

HAESUE:

Well, you know, I heard an interesting thing here. We grieve, obviously we all are familiar with grief when somebody dies, but I also hear a specific type of grief when you potentially made this connection of finally figuring out potentially what it was that killed your father. That's a different kind of grief, mourning what could have been. And at that age, when you found out this was what it was, thinking back to your dad, it all I'm guessing must have come rushing back of, if we could have just done this.

RYAN SICKLER:

I'm 52 now and at 42, I'm in his skin. I'm in his age and I'm like, oh my God, I'm so young still like how sad and tragic also that this, I step outside of that. I'm like, this man died and didn't even get to enjoy his three kids. And you know, all because people just didn't know what was going on at the time. And yeah, I think about that stuff a lot. 

HAESUE:

I imagine you think about a lot of stuff and I would really love to hear how you've moved through that you're living now, working, sharing things that make people laugh. And laughter is a great coping mechanism, but I'd love to hear about your coping mechanism. What have you done in these past 10 years since the diagnosis to cope?

RYAN SICKLER:

One of the things I do and have done every day and continue to do is called the Gratitude Journal. Are you familiar with the gratitude journal?

HAESUE:

But please let us know about what that is in case people don't know. Sure.

RYAN SICKLER:

So it's something, you can get this on Amazon. It's something that, you know, growing up like that and also being a comedian and being cynical, a lot of times my immediate thought is a smartass thought or something, you know, cynical or whatever. And honestly, what that really is, is it's a negative thought. So I started trying little things like, hey, before you say something, your first thought about anything, try to say two things positive and then you can crap on it. 

So gratitude journal is, I wake up every morning and it asks you to write three things you're grateful for. And then it asks you to write three things that you're gonna accomplish today that will make you feel good to get done. And then you write a statement, I am happy, I am leveling up, I am taking control, whatever that is for you.

So that's just for your day. And then [in] the evening, it is [a] reflection on did we knock these three things out today? And then the last thing at the bottom is something you learned that was new today to you. And I started doing that. I don't know, I've done five or six of these books now and I can't tell you how much that's helped with just not going to the negative first, because sometimes not just even saying, just giving a negative comment puts you in that negative mindset. And then I've seen myself. I also went and did EMDR [Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing] therapy. So I've done a lot of talk therapy, you know, I guess this anxiety had just been chilling in a hammock down there waiting to get its call and then boom, it was like, we're up. And next thing I know,

HAESUE:

Oh, it's different when it's our kids.

RYAN SICKLER:

Wooh. I'm terrified to fly. All of a sudden I'm terrified of heights. I love to fly. I'm, I'm not scared of heights and I'm, I can't get on a plane. Every little bump is now making me think we're gonna crash and here comes death. Death. It's all that spiraling and darkness. So I go to EMDR therapy and I do that for a few months.

HAESUE:

I love EMDR, but I would love to hear from you somebody that through it as a client in therapy, what are the differences that you notice between EMDR and talk therapy?

RYAN SICKLER:

Well, EMDR definitely has an end to it, which I love. Like let me take the tools I've learned here and get out into the real world and implement them and work on myself. But nothing I did was shaking my fear of heights and flying all of a sudden. Those are the only two things affecting me too.

HAESUE:

And you know, EMDR, for those that don't know, [it] stands for eye movement desensitization reprocessing. It is very different than talk therapy. There is talking involved. There's something else involved. So can you tell us what your experience was with that?

RYAN SICKLER:

I've done both. I've done Zoom where we do eye movement. But in person, I had little buzzers in my hand and she would tell me like, it's not easy. EMDR is, we're going and looking at your darkest, ugliest stuff. And I would go back to the moment where I found my father in his bed and I would think quietly I'd get, I think it was a minute or so, and these things would buzz in my hands,

HAESUE:

Bilateral simulation. As they say.

RYAN SICKLER:

Thank you, I don't know all the terms. And then she would stop and I'd set 'em down and she'd tell me where you went. And we would talk and she would take notes and she would say, okay, I heard this three times. And whatever that was, we'd start working on and unpacking what's really going on. And what I'm learning through EMDR is that I'm living in the past. And I'm living in this anxiety that I'm feeling from finding my, I didn't just find my dad in his bed, that's 16-year-old Ryan. But I'm in that mindset. I'm living that feeling in my body and I'm trying to understand why this has control over me and how I can get control over it. And we're going through every ugly thing in life. And it was about four months and during that time, I'm flying and everything and I'm coming back and I'm telling her, oh, I did not do good on this one. And now I sleep on every flight. I live on the top floor of my building. It's gone.

HAESUE:

Through EMDR.

RYAN SICKLER:

Hundred percent through EMDR.

HAESUE:

The idea behind EMDR is that when you're doing this bilateral simulation, whether you're using buzzers or using eye movement or following a light, something like that, it's about rewiring connections in your brain. There's associations we make between trauma and our identity and beliefs about ourselves. And through EMDR you work towards unlearning.

RYAN SICKLER:

And the mantras, you know, I'm good enough, I love myself, you know, all these things. Be kind to yourself. And that's another thing I'm just beating myself up a bunch too. Another thing I've tried to do is if I'm gonna go in the mirror and look at myself and have a negative thought about myself, I'm trying to put a positive one in there too, you know.

HAESUE:

And that's a lot of what's behind EMDR. Is unlearning something, which I think people hear associated with therapy, a lot and relearning something to be healthier, hopefully happier. You know, Ryan, I really feel like I could talk to you all day about all kinds of things. You have such an incredible story and I'm so appreciative of you having shared it. And I'm wondering as we're wrapping up here, what's one thing you wish someone would've told you right after you got your diagnosis or even after one of your hospital stays?

RYAN SICKLER:

It's a great question. Something I want to tell everybody out there first is be your own advocate. I tell everybody that comes on my show that's, they don't talk to their family anymore or they're, whatever. That's fine. I'm not gonna get into your business, but you better find out your family genetics because that's your blueprint and that's your DNA. And if they have it, you have it. And if they're likely to get it, you're likely to get it. Protect yourself. I wish someone would've told me that. God, I feel like I did everything that I could have in there, but I do wish someone would've told me that it's gonna be a long road and if you just take it day by day, you're gonna be so much better in the long run and you're gonna want to feel better and you're gonna be mad and you're gonna want to blah blah blah.

But just take it day by day. I wish somebody would've said, you about to grab somebody by the chest and say, listen to me. I need help. That's what I should have said. Yeah. Day by day. And stay as positive as you can about it.

HAESUE:

Day by day. Great advice. Thanks so much Ryan.

So much came up in that conversation with Ryan. His diagnosis brought up some complicated feelings of grief and anger related to the death of his father and the lack of advocacy he received as a patient. He survived a near death experience and after faced an uncertain future, especially as he thought about his career and family life. A situation like this is something that we hope will never happen to ourselves and our loved ones, but life is unpredictable, and I think there's a lot in Ryan's story that everyone can learn from. 

So let's explore some key takeaways from the conversation and bring in another therapist. Joining us again here on the show is Dr. Sreela Roy-Greene, Clinical Operations Manager at BetterHelp. Sreela is a personal friend of mine and she's been a therapist for years. Both of us have experience helping clients feel empowered to advocate for themselves and work through health challenges and anxiety. Like Ryan said, the road ahead might be difficult, but it's important to take things day by day. And in the process there are lots of tools you can use to improve your mental health in the present and start living life to its fullest. Let's dive in.

HAESUE:

Hi Sreela. It's great to see you.

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

You as well. Always a pleasure.

HAESUE:

Today we're gonna be talking about this discussion that I had not too long ago with Ryan Sickler. He came on here open, willing to explore his past experiences with learning of a diagnosis of a rare blood condition, and then kind of what life looked like after that. And in addition to that, processing the fact that his father who passed away quite young, may have passed away from this condition and they just didn't know that the family didn't have that history previously. Health complications are often unexpected and whether you experienced them yourself or you know someone dealing with that, it's hard to know where to turn. I think there is not really a standard order of processes that everybody is used to. And so what would you say to someone who's newly experiencing this? Where do you start?

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

I think that's the question. Like where does one even begin?

I think it's important to recognize it's actually a very common experience because you're almost primed and set up to feel invalidated or unheard or dismissed. When you're also going through something like this, you're already dealing with the feelings of being blindsided.

You know, again, to your point, you didn't wake up one morning and say, I think today is the day I'm gonna get a life changing diagnosis around my health. And I think that it's okay to acknowledge just that. Like, I just got blindsided. I had no idea this was coming. I don't know what the right way to go about dealing with this is. And the reality is, and I think it's important for people who are listening to recognize, there is no perfect way to handle something like this. But that said, it is important to move forward and then be able to create a plan.

Recognize like there, there might be healthy ways for me to go through this and what are the healthiest ways for me? And recognizing a couple of things, like first off, you're the one that's going through it. The individual who just got diagnosed is in fact the one that this is impacting. Not necessarily the provider. They may be the expert on what you're going through from a medical standpoint and from a professional clinical standpoint, but they're not the expert on you and your body and your experience and your condition. And so I think it's important to write down your concerns or make notes of it and [make] sure that you have a sounding board or someone that you trust to the best of your ability that you can acknowledge and, and recognize. Like there may be unasked questions you haven't thought of yet. So writing it down and then doing your own research and not, I'm not saying go down the rabbit hole, you know, we often do, I mean, according to WebMD or any of, or Google, frankly speaking, I should have died like 10 times over, right?

Because that's what they tell you. But being able to have a balance, like it's okay to research and it's okay to ask questions, be prepared to ask those questions, even the difficult ones. And I think one thing that resonated for me in the conversation with Ryan is that asking questions doesn't make one a difficult patient. It makes you an advocate for you. My favorite thing to ask always is if it was your loved one that you were advocating for. And I think that's the angle to maybe look at it from. Is that, is it making you difficult or is it making you an advocate? And wouldn't you do that for someone you care about?

HAESUE:

Yeah. You're kinda touching on the distinction here. I, at least for some people, I think it's easier to advocate for someone you really care about. But in the conversation I had with Ryan, he did talk about feeling really angry, super frustrated that he felt like he was constantly needing to repeat himself. And in that moment, perhaps he could have used some of this advice here, but how can somebody in this kind of situation effectively advocate for themselves in medical settings, especially when they're feeling like they're not being heard?

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

I think being able to say, I feel like I'm repeating myself. I'd really prefer if you read my chart prior to seeing me and be informed of my condition. You know, I was just thinking back to when I was expecting and when you're at certain stages of pregnancy, they have, you go and get 500 tests and blood draws and things like that. And I would just go in and I'd be polite, but I'd be like, listen, don't do this. Just do this. This is the arm, this is what you wanna do. And that's it. And what I found was it made their jobs a lot easier too, when I was more direct and upfront and saying, listen, this is me. This is what I have. This is what I want you to do. Those are the areas that it's important to advocate for yourself in whatever ways you can control.

HAESUE:

In addition to needing to navigate his own blood clotting condition, being aware of the ways in which he's gonna have to advocate for himself in various settings. He also described experiencing a very specific type of grief when he realized that his father likely guide from the same genetic condition that he has and that his father might be still alive today if the doctors had just known at that time. So how do you help somebody process this kind of retroactive understanding of a family member’s death?

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

That broke my heart, you know, to hear that. And I think it's a very real feeling. It's almost a form of survivor's guilt.

HAESUE:

Before you go on, can you explain what survivor's guilt is?

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question.

You know, survivor's guilt is when we survive a really difficult experience. For example, what comes to mind, is when there's an accident, and the people might be very hurt or pass away from that accident, but you live, with maybe minimal injuries and there's almost a guilt of, that could have been me, I should have been that one.

 Right? Not wishing [for] it, but almost feeling a guilt over the fact that I survived but somebody else didn't. Almost like a derivative of that occurs when we learn that somebody we love or cared about could have survived, if only they had known. And so the reality is, yeah, you know, Ryan's probably right, their father probably could have lived longer if the doctors had known. And that's not necessarily anybody's fault. Like who's really to blame in that situation. You know, his father couldn't have known, he as a child could not have known. And so it's really not anyone's fault, but it's still a loss. It's still grief.

Haesue:

So ultimately what I'm hearing is moving forward is the direction to go and thinking about the past, whether you're blaming something or trying to figure out what to blame, it sounds like the focus being in that past space is not what's gonna propel you forward.

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

Yep. I agree.

HAESUE:

So I know, as people, we hear the what if questions fairly often. As therapists, I have a feeling we're kind of invited into that head space a little bit more than the average person. A lot of anxiety is very much centered around that concept of what if, what if this thing happens? What if that thing doesn't happen? What if she says this? What if he freaks out this way? What if they respond [to] this kind of thing? What if I'm gonna die? So how do you approach the what if fears and anxiety that come with living with a life-threatening or high-risk diagnosis? And I ask this because this is what Ryan had to figure out how to live with and how to move forward. Yeah.

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

Again, the, “what if” we hear it a lot. I think that's like 99% of my sessions. Like, what if this happens? You're, you know, I hear that it's perfectly normal, especially when you're facing a medical diagnosis of any kind. It's okay to have those “What if?” questions, it's going to create feelings of fear, anxiety, angst, all of the above. And I think the best thing that any individual can do is acknowledge it in that moment. Like, these are real for me. And then talking through them actually, like saying it out loud, I think also takes a little bit of that power away from those what if questions. Because if you put it out there, it's not just sitting and stewing. Just being able to acknowledge, okay, there are a lot of “What if’s?” and I cannot plan for each and each and every one of them perfectly. 'cause there is no perfect, it hasn't happened yet, but having a best case scenario plan, a worst case scenario plan. And my favorite, which is the most realistic scenario plan. One of my favorite quotes that I think I heard very early on in my career, somebody said, you know, worrying is like sitting in a rocking chair. It's something to do but it doesn't take you anywhere.

HAESUE:

I like that one.

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

I know. And it stuck. It's one of those ones that just got in there and it stuck with me ever since.

HAESUE:

Yeah. I also like what you said about talking about stuff, how that kind of changes the way a thought can even affect us. I'm sure you've heard this too with your clients. I've heard this so many times from clients, they're saying something and then they add the little thing under their breaths, pretty audibly. Oh, it doesn't sound as bad now that I've said it out loud.

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

Yes, yes!

HAESUE:

So often that I've heard this. Alright, Ryan found EMDR particularly helpful in addressing his trauma. He even said that it fixed the problem rather than just making him feel better temporarily. Can you tell us a bit about EMDR and how it differs from talk therapy?

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

Well, first off, EMDR is one of many therapeutic interventions and it does have a pretty significant impact on managing symptoms of a lot of different mental health conditions. PTSD is actually where EMDR got its first real foundation and it's been able to get applied into like other therapeutic avenues, depression and anxiety, [and] so on. And there is [a] significant benefit to it because it is a mind-body connection experience. And it actually does help to connect the symptoms that we are experiencing and being able to, I guess, divert it. However, in addition to EMDR, there are a lot of other strategies that I think people can find helpful from a therapeutic standpoint. You know, whether that's cognitive behavioral therapy, somatic therapy is another therapeutic intervention that has gained a lot more of an uptick in following in the last few years. And then in [a] similar vein, you know, for other people it's just traditional talk therapy. So I think it's really about figuring out what works best for you.

HAESUE:

Yeah. So I'm hearing then that there isn't necessarily a specific therapeutic approach that's gonna be the most effective to help people heal from medical trauma specifically. And you know, a lot of people aren't always aware that their therapist is probably drawing from these different kinds of therapy, but, you know, I think a prudent and well-prepared client can certainly do some research on the different types of therapy or even if they're in therapy, asking their therapist about what other kinds of approaches might exist out there, because a therapist probably knows a little bit about these things. 

Okay. So Ryan framed his condition as though it's not something that impacts him on a daily basis. He doesn't live with chronic pain. There are just some things that he has to keep in mind. And so basically despite this serious condition, he shared that he feels healthier than ever. He's learned to take things day by day. How might someone reframe a life-changing diagnosis from something that limits them to something that empowers better self-care and mindfulness the way it sounds like Ryan has been able to do?

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

Yeah, I loved hearing this and acknowledging that's the experience for a lot of people. I think it is pretty common for individuals who get life-changing news to reevaluate life and their behaviors that accompany what they've known as, they're, up until now, life and looking at, well, maybe that worked for a little while, maybe it's not working anymore. I think people realize, oh, I can't go back in time, but I can move forward. Again, there's that theme of moving forward. And it means being more present, being more mindful, being more cognizant of the things that you do have control over versus focusing on the things you don't like. I can't control the fact that I have this condition, but I can control the fact that I eat a little bit better or that I exercise a little bit more, or I finally decided I'm gonna take that class in X, Y, or Z to feel good about myself in other ways.

Right. Whatever that might be. I think the other piece is that it can force a person to reevaluate how they take care of themselves and how maybe they haven't been. You know, I think, again, you brought this up earlier, Haesue is, you know, sometimes we don't prioritize ourselves. Some people are really good at prioritizing themselves and taking care of themselves and others may not, you know. And when you get a life altering diagnosis or a life changing news, it does change that a little bit in your mind to say, you know, maybe it's time for me to take care of myself a little bit better and whatever that looks like, not that I wish a a diagnosis on anyone, but it does sometimes force an individual to look at what can I start doing better for me? Not taking life for granted and being able to say, I'm gonna enjoy each moment.

HAESUE:

Yeah. Sometimes getting this life-changing news is what gets us to realize or kind of wake up to the fact that we're living a life, that we're taking something for granted, and we don't necessarily need a medical condition to teach us to not take life for granted. But sometimes that's what happens. So instead, maybe it's something about fostering a life, starting to live a life, starting today when, and if you do receive this kind of news, you don't feel like you have to radically change your life because you've been living a life that is good. Thinking of the difference between being on autopilot and being mindfully attuned to the road and how it's a little bit different there. There's subtle differences between somebody that's passively letting life happen to them, and somebody that's actively participating in life. One thing that Ryan mentioned that he does is that he writes in his gratitude journal every day. I'm wondering what you think are the benefits of listing things that you're grateful for on a regular basis?

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

I love gratitude journals. I am a huge proponent of them. It's very much in line with positive psychology. But also something that, going back to my own work in a hospital for many years, we actually had a group that we did that was just about gratitude and it was all about the different ways of finding the littlest things to be grateful for. My personal favorite was when somebody said, I'm grateful for my toes. And everybody kinda looked at them a little bit like, what? Like, okay. And they said no, because that's what helps me walk. And I, you know, whatever, wherever that may have come from for them, I don't remember exactly, but for me it was like, how often do we take that for granted? You know? And that's the piece I think that when it comes down to gratitude, it doesn't have to be like mind boggling gratitude. It can be simple gratitude. So I think that it's very powerful to practice gratitude in whatever ways you can. You know, one thing a day, not five, not 10, not 20, just one. And when we do that, it does actually rewire our brain chemistry. And our neural pathways. And it helps us to start to have a little bit more of a different approach and attitude, including in our behaviors. So it's definitely something that does work. You just need the buy-in.

HAESUE:

Right, right. Absolutely. And I think that is a good place to end on. So thank you so much Sreela for your time and your wisdom today.

SREELA ROY-GREENE:

Oh, thank you.

HAESUE:

This is an ad by Better Help. We covered a lot in this episode surrounding the mental health challenges that come with physical health complications. When we're dealt life changing scenarios, it can be hard to know how to cope, especially without a good support system. Therapy can provide that. It can also give you the tools to be there for your loved ones who might be on their own journeys. Visit betterhelp.com/mindifwetalk for 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/mindifwetalk. 

I wanna give a big thank you to BetterHelp for their passion behind this project and for giving us a platform to champion the wellbeing in all of us. Mind If We Talk is produced by Acast Creative Studios in collaboration with BetterHelp and hosted by me, Haesue Jo. If you like what you just heard, drop us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and share with your friends. Maybe one of our topics will help someone in your life. And remember, your happiness matters. Mind if we talk? is intended for entertainment and education, not for mental health diagnosis or medical advice.